SHOULD THE ELGIN MARBLES BE RETURNED TO GREECE??

The Elgin Marbles have played a vital role of the historical content of Greece between 447 and 432BCE until 1801 when Lord Elgin the so called 'art lover' obtained them by sawing them off. The Elgin marbles belonged to a prehitoric site named the Parthenon which was dedicated to the goddess Athena, who is the goddess of wisdom, a goddess of crafts, as well as a war goddess. So for the return of these marbles there has been a commitee which was established in 1994 by a Greek actress who strongly believed that the marbles should be returned to Greece, However these are not the first artefacts that Britain Possesses, The British Museum also contains many other artefacts from ancient Greece as well as many artefacts from the egyptian amarna period and Babylonian artefacts. These are the reasons for return or against return:

Should the elgin marbles be returned to Greece??

Yes, because... For return, Cultural importance

 

The cultural importance of the marbles are very strong, not only do they posses the power to almost unlock the past of ancient Greece but as well they have the power to unite the local Citizens of Greece to their true heritage.

 
 

Should the elgin marbles be returned to Greece??

Yes, because... Other museums have returned them!!

 

Cultural treasures from ancient civilisations belong in the places they came from. Museums in Sweden, Germany, America and the Vatican have already acknowledged this and returned items taken from the Acropolis. The British museum should follow suit and put an end to more than two centuries of Cultural loss in Greece.

 
 

Should the elgin marbles be returned to Greece??

Yes, because... They would be looked after suitably

 

Since 1975 Greece has been carefully restoring the Acropolis. Athens now has a secure enviroment to maintain the marbles, The New Acropolis Museum contains a replica of the temple thus the marbles would appear as being exactly the same as on the real temple.

 
 

Should the elgin marbles be returned to Greece??

Yes, because... The marbles has suffered considerable damage in the British Museum

 

In the 19th Century the British museums attempt to clean them using sandpaper, chisels and acid, caused irreparable damage. Which Illustrates the incability of this museums care for the precious marbles, On the other hand the Greek museums would take a countless amount of care of them because of their Elongated wait for them as well they have proved their love for them.

 

There is a difference between now and then, the chances of the British Museaum inflicting damage on an artifact today seems to be pretty small, while at the same timethey were not being preserved at all while in Greece. This should have no impact on the debate today.

 

Vote on this point: The marbles has suffered considerable damage in the British Museum

Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

Should the elgin marbles be returned to Greece??

Yes, because... They don't assimilate in the British Museum

 

In the British Museum, If you have ever seen a video or picture of how the marbles appear with their sorroundings, Then you will immediately sense that these marbles just look like priceless rocks with their tedious sorroundings. On the other hand if they were placed on their natrual enviroment then they would appear as they truly should.

Opposition to the No --->

The point is that We want what is ours back and not the ammounts of tourists at UK or the ammounts of tourists at Greece.

Also why should you profit with our artifacts ? You , as a british citizen probably want your Country to profit from them but shouldnt Greece profit from its rightfully belongings?

There is now proof that --

Lord Elgin (Thomas Bruce) had permission to take things from the Parthenon which were ON THE FLOOR. Lord elgin hacked the marbles off with a saw, therefore he was not permitted to take them. The marbles were also greatly damaged when Thomas Bruce did this to them. Is it right that he did this? Ask yourself, is it fair? Is it, in any way, just?

 

But the British museum is visited far more than the Greek museum. More people would be able to appreciate the marbles if they remained in the British Museum.

"You , as a british citizen probably want your Country to profit from them but shouldnt Greece profit from its rightfully belongings?" Big British museams are free so Britain is not benefiting financially. Ultimately it is heritage, it is not something that should be used for profit either by Greeks or Britons.

proposition
Lord Elgin (Thomas Bruce) had permission to take things from the Parthenon which were ON THE FLOOR.
mind giving a reference for that?

 

Vote on this point: They don't assimilate in the British Museum

Absolutely Yes
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Neutral
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Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

Should the elgin marbles be returned to Greece??

Yes, because... It is still uncertain whether Lord Elgin acquired the permission to obtain the Marbles.

 

It is still doubtful whether Lord Elgin was ever truly granted permission to take the marbles. The existing English translation of the 1801 document supposedly signed by the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire has often been denounced as a fake. Furthermore, even if it is genuine, the royal decree gives permission mainly "to examine and view, and also to copy the figures remaining there". So it is unlikely that the Sultan ever thought that Elgin would actually remove entire frescos and sculptures.

 

Thus as much as it is doubtful that Lord Elgin ever truly was granted permission to take the marbles, There is a a version translated into Italian and then into English which states: "when they wish to take away any pieces of stone with old inscriptions or figures thereon, that no opposition be made thereto."

 

Vote on this point: It is still uncertain whether Lord Elgin acquired the permission to obtain the Marbles.

Absolutely Yes
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Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

Should the elgin marbles be returned to Greece??

Yes, because... Economically wise it is unfair!!

 

Millions of people flock to Britain annually to catch a glimpse of these fabulous marbles, whilst Greece is left with not such an abundance of tourists. So why should Britain be earning so much profit when The Greek civilizations were the ones who originally formed them.

well then if you want it to be more available to a larger group of people send them over to China or india, where they will be viewed by millions more!

Opposition to the NO ---->

Also the World Heritage will be as able to visit London to see them as able it is to see it at Greece

And if you say the usual "Its easier to visit them at UK" I'll just say for Who? Because its as easy for a Spain or an Italian Citizen to visit UK as easy it is for him to visit Greece..

 

I think you'll find that tourists don't 'flock to Britain' especially to see the marbles. Had the marbles not been in the British Museum it would remain as popular as it is now. You may say, well then it doesn't matter if they lose the marbles to the Greek museum... But the museum doesn't strive soley to make a profit from displaying the artefacts. The artefacts belong to a WORLD heritage that anyone deserves to see. And many more people will see the marbles in the British museum.

The Elgin Marbles add diversity to an experience of visiting London and Britain as there is not much that are like them. Greece on the other hand is stuffed with ancient greek artifacts that can be visitied - why would you travel to visit something that is pretty similar to lots of others?

 

Vote on this point: Economically wise it is unfair!!

Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
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Partially Yes
Neutral
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Strongly No
Absolutely No

Should the elgin marbles be returned to Greece??

 

What right does Britain have to them, then? Surely their cultural connection to the pieces is even less than that of the Greeks, and they only have them because they abducted them from Greece (the circumstances of which are more than a little shady). Greece at least has the claim that it houses the ruins from whence the marbles came, and that regardless of the people living there now, they are a part of the history of the land itself.

Greeks are proud of there History and so they should be!!! If something of that importance is yours then the rightful owner will care about them!!! Just give them back! I'm not Greek, I'm Australian, even I can see that its rightfully Hellenic (Greek) History and NOT ENGLISH...... IT BELONGS TO GREECE..GET OVER IT!!!!

 

What the?.. Who are you to say that Modern Greeks have no connection to Ancient Greeks?..

Also If this is true then you are no difference.. If Modern Greeks have no connection to the Ancient Greeks it is sure that noone in this planet has a connection to his ancient race..

Because when Ancient Greece was a super power and Ancient world language was greek (New testament was written in greek) Ancient greeks were travelling eveywhere and if as you claim they by time got mixed up that much to lose their identity then so did the damn planet..

I believe your just jealous of Greece's citizens..

 

Vote on this point: Absurd

Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
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Neutral
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Strongly No
Absolutely No

Should the elgin marbles be returned to Greece??

Yes, because... They are more suitably in Greece and they are Greecer's elgin marbles

 

Put the elgin marbles back in Greece. It is not Britons is Greece it was there frist. they just soll it from Greece.

THAT BAD THOMAS BRUCE !

Greeks are proud of there History and so they should be!!! If something of that importance is yours then the rightful owner will care about them!!! Just give them back! I'm not Greek, I'm Australian, even I can see that its rightfully Hellenic (Greek) History and NOT ENGLISH...... IT BELONGS TO GREECE..GET OVER IT!!!!

 

This is just a statement repeated several times without any relevant reasoning for why they should be considered be returned.

 

Vote on this point: They are more suitably in Greece and they are Greecer's elgin marbles

Absolutely Yes
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Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

Should the elgin marbles be returned to Greece??

 

No, because... The British museum doesn't want to set a precedent.

Well then make replicas and display them at the place of the originals. Every country should be entitled to reclaim their artefacts.

 

The museum still contains many other artefacts from past civilizations, so if they return the Elgin Marbles then they would have to do the same for everything else.

 

Vote on this point: The British museum doesn't want to set a precedent.

Absolutely Yes
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Partially Yes
Neutral
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Strongly No
Absolutely No

Should the elgin marbles be returned to Greece??

 

No, because... The set will never be complete.

How complete the set is does not seem to be a good reason either to return them to Greece or to keep them where they are. If they will never be complete then it makes little difference to where they are.

 

Even if the British return these priceless marbles then the set will never be complete because many of the pieces to the Acropolis are lost forever.

 

Vote on this point: The set will never be complete.

Absolutely Yes
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Neutral
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Absolutely No

Should the elgin marbles be returned to Greece??

 

No, because... They protected it!!

The British civilization did not protect them but stole them and has benefited very much from the Elgin Marbles as many tourists have visited the British Museum just for them.

And since when is stealing named protection?

Please allow me to "protect" your house as you claim that British "protected" the Marbles..

While it is true that the Britain may have protected them at the time when they were first taken it is now wrong to believe that they could not be suitibly looked after back in Greece.

 

The British civilization protected them between 1821 and 1833 when The Greek War of Independence was occuring and the Parthenon was used as an Ottoman munitions store and subsequently attacked. Subsequently the museum is much better care for them opposed to highly polluted Greece.

 

Vote on this point: They protected it!!

Absolutely Yes
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Absolutely No

Should the elgin marbles be returned to Greece??

 

No, because... The Law!!

What you claim is outstanding and humorous..

Let the Greeks create a law that will say that from now on we dont pay our loans back to Britain and when the British ask for it say "Ohh well, we cant send money to UK.. See, Our law says clearly that "The Greek Goverment is not allowed to retrieve funds from the National treasury if the reason for the retrievement is to deliver them to the British Goverment."

 

The British Museums charter implies that the institution cannot legally return items from its collection: "The Trustees of The British Museum hold its collections in perpetuity by virtue of the power vested in them by The British Museum Act (1963)."

 

Vote on this point: The Law!!

Absolutely Yes
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Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

Should the elgin marbles be returned to Greece??

 

No, because... Possibility of Damage of Elgin Marbles

The new Acropolis Museum is a 21st century museum and the excuse of the improper safe and maintenace of the marbles doesn't excist any more. The marbles, beacause of the british have been damaged more than the marbles which are in Athens and the differences are visible in just a sight

"Possibility of Damage"

Well I would say that "Let the Greeks care for that" since its their belongings eh??..

"Transporting these items is risky due to the possibility of theft or damage during the transportation of these items."

I didnt see them get damaged at the age of 1801 to 1812 when Elgin and his agents took them to the UK..

Why the damage to occur now with this outstanding technology we have and are able to provide them?

 

This might happen in transport, and also Greece does not consider the importance of proper maintenance of such items as highly as other countries, including the UK, who are more committed to ensuring the proper maintenance of such items. Transporting these items is risky due to the possibility of theft or damage during the transportation of these items.

 

Vote on this point: Possibility of Damage of Elgin Marbles

Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
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Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No

Should the elgin marbles be returned to Greece??

 

No, because... Everyones artifacts are spread around

 

Due to the flow of history, trade, pillaging etc every country has its heritage spread around the world. Britain obviously as one of the great pillagers of the world has more of others objects than they have of Britains but there are still some that are scattered. Take for example the Codex Amiatinus the earliest surviving nearly complete Latin Vulgate Bible, produced in Northumbria but not surprisingly in Italy: Florence. The original Medieval Crown of England meanwhile is in Munich.[1]

  1. ^ http://www.residenz-muenchen.de/englisch/treasury/pic11.htm

 

Should the elgin marbles be returned to Greece??

 

No, because... Greece was never the rightful owner

The Ottomans may have been in their rights to sell them to Elgin back then, but now it is time for them to be back in Greece, especially if Greece is asking for them.

The Parthenon was built by Pericles, not Turkey, in 447 BC. Then, it was under the "Athenian Empire," which is Greece. So to say that modern Greece never existed before the 19th century is absurd! They had empires back then! Because they overtook OTHER countries. It wasn't called "Turkey" either, it was called the "Ottoman Empire" if we would like to get into specifics.

The world is constantly changing around us, but those marbles were originally on the Parthenon, and right now, the Parthenon sits atop Greece, not Turkey, nor Britain.

When people want to see the Acropolis, they go to Greece. And to have to explain to the people that Britain has some of the pieces just makes the trip to Greece less magical. Then again, Britain does not have a history as grand and marvelous as Greece's, so it is obvious why they are trying to keep whatever pieces of history from other countries they have obtained.

The so called "rightful owner" of the Parthenon is now Greece, and that is where the marbles should go back to, especially seeing as how they are putting forth so much work to restore the Parthenon.

 

In the mid 5th century BC, Athens moved the treasury of the Delian League (ie funds for defence) from Delos to Athens. The Parthenon was built using these funds. When you think that a considerable proportion of these funds actually came from the city states in what is now modern day Turkey, the Ottomans were perfectly within their rights to sell them to Elgin.

When you add to this the fact that modern Greece never existed before the 19th century, it is difficult to say that Greece ever owned them at all.

my view is that if they were to be returned to the rightful owner then they should go to Turkey, who owned them at the time of the "sale" and who paid for them when Athens misappropriated defence funds.

 

Vote on this point: Greece was never the rightful owner

Absolutely Yes
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Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
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Strongly No
Absolutely No

Vote on this debate: Should the elgin marbles be returned to Greece??

Absolutely Yes
Strongly Yes
Mostly Yes
Partially Yes
Neutral
Partially No
Mostly No
Strongly No
Absolutely No
22 February 2011