- + Werbehoguehob joined Debatewise
- + Arresudgert joined Debatewise
- + Penf Defs joined Debatewise
- + Debate76ster joined Debatewise
- + Keerthana.Bora joined Debatewise
- + Ankpsin joined Debatewise
- + Timothy Orzeszek joined Debatewise
- + Barry Nism joined Global Youth Panel
- + Sararozmus joined Debatewise
- + Locksgydff joined Debatewise
- + Mantcece Sed603 joined Debatewise
- + Chaci joined Debatewise
- + Scoolfeds joined Debatewise
- + Deonvoff joined Debatewise
- + Seng9153 joined Debatewise
- + Penf Dumn joined Debatewise
- + Benjamin Barnard joined Debatewise
- + Seniallealm joined Debatewise
- + Eurorcevete joined Debatewise
- + Urbaday joined Debatewise
- + Mangopop0033 joined Debatewise
- + Steven Allyn Taylor joined Debatewise
- + Yoskha D. Adrianto joined Debatewise
- + Nirmal Kumar joined Debatewise
- + Hülya joined Debatewise
- + Seiliacek Kese897 joined Global Youth Panel
- + Maciej Pielachowski joined Debatewise
- + Poldimpailm joined Debatewise
- + Moogmaclan I joined Debatewise
- + Barry Skaw joined Debatewise
THE US EMBASSY CABLES LEAKS HURT US ALLIES MORE THAN THE US ITSELF.
The latest batch of wikileaks has hit not the US military but the State department. The leak is of more than a quarter of a million embassy cables, communications between U.S. embassies around the world and the US state department. The oldest of them date back to 1966. However so far the leaks seem to not tell us much we did not already know and may if anything be more embarrassing to the US’s allies rather than the US. The US comes out as a voice of moderation on the issue of Iran even during G.W. Bush’s presidency while Arab states and Israel demand military strikes. Pen portraits of foreign leaders are as likely to embassies the leader portrayed as the writer and Prince Andrew does not seem to have covered himself in glory as a trade representative.
The US Embassy Cables leaks hurt US allies more than the US itself.
Yes, because... Koreans claim to be sufficiently embarrassed
This is modern-day espionage at its worst.
What South Korean diplomats say or do in what should be the "privacy" of their chambers is nobody else's business.
What is seemingly harmless information except for getting a few laughs can and should legally put the lives of Wiki-leak squealers in danger. The founder could face extradition in accordance to U.K/U.S law.[1]
The two Israeli American soldiers who were prosecuted under the U.S espionage act talked about mission plans on Facebook and a Gaza raid had to cancelled/postponed because of them. "In March, the IDF was forced to cancel a West Bank raid, after a soldier wrote about the upcoming mission on his Facebook page. In July, alumni of a secret IDF base sparked a furor in Israel when they formed a Facebook group to trade pictures and stories — and then let a reporter join."[2][3]
Vote on this point: Koreans claim to be sufficiently embarrassed
See history of changes to this point
The US Embassy Cables leaks hurt US allies more than the US itself.
Yes, because... Pakistan's nuclear program is under still greater scrutiny
The tensions between India and Pakistan will be rekindled as M.Singh will see the leaks as an excuse to increment pressure on Pakistan and try to bank on anti-terrorism war-funding.
Adding fuel to the fire, is the fact that India can do absolutely nothing to protect Pakistan's nuclear arsenal and will probably use R.A.W to makes matters worse so that Pakistan is forced to disarm. Disarmament takes time ,money and ultimately serves the interests of terrorists who have greater opportunities to steal weapons during the vulnerable disarmament process(there is no perfect solution when it comes to nuclear waste or weapons disposal).[2]
President Obama is prudent when it comes to nuclear disarmament in the U.S.A because it isn't safe to disarm now. How can Pakistan, a far less powerful country, take the risk? And if Pakistan caves; A war with India because of their competitive weapons advantage(India isn't being pressured to disarm) would be impossible to avoid.[3]
Vote on this point: Pakistan's nuclear program is under still greater scrutiny
See history of changes to this point
The US Embassy Cables leaks hurt US allies more than the US itself.
Yes, because... Wikileaks founder on trial for Rape
[1] two women claim that Assange raped them during his recent stay in Sweden.[2]
Assange insists that the sex was consensual; and it is hard to absorb that he could rape two women at the same time; unless they claimed to be unconscious which they didn't. If this a ploy to make him look bad; well, Roman Polanski lost no artistic credibility or integrity from his involvement in a similar matter(statutory rape).
This situation undermines the site because of the founder's character flaws. Any information relating the U.S to war-crimes is overshadowed by this controversy.
These are serious charges but have little or nothing to do with whether Wiki-leaks is reliable or not; he doesn't provide the information for the site. The data and he are two separate entities and should be viewed in isolation.
Leaders of other countries(including U.S allies) look like funny caricatures but do not really face any serious charges. The U.S on the other hand has a lot to answer to in terms of violations of the Geneva convention, inhuman torture, unnecessary bombings; covert alliances etc etc...[1][2][3]
Vote on this point: Wikileaks founder on trial for Rape
See history of changes to this point
The US Embassy Cables leaks hurt US allies more than the US itself.
Yes, because... Yemen's double game foiled
[1] Yemen's President Ali Abdullah Saleh's alliance with the U.S is exposed to the government's detriment. The president's popularity has suffered tremendously and the leak is not only an embarrassment for him.
The U.S will suffer more than Yemen for this; because they have lost an ally who must backtrack on his support to the U.S; to win back the support of his people. How else is he going to convince his people that the sovereignty of Yemeni borders is retrieved/preserved? Americans will also have objections to the fact that their soldiers have been fighting in Yemen without getting any credit for it. Actually Americans have objections to troops fighting; period.[1]
Vote on this point: Yemen's double game foiled
See history of changes to this point
The US Embassy Cables leaks hurt US allies more than the US itself.
Yes, because... British troops inadequate
"The criticism of the British operation in Helmand centres on its failure to establish security in Sangin – the town which has become totemic as the place that has claimed more British lives than any other in Afghanistan.
The Helmand governor, Gulab Mangal, told a US team led by the vice-president, Joe Biden, in January 2009 that American forces were urgently needed as British security in Sangin was inadequate and did not even extend to the town's main bazaar, according to a cable sent from the US embassy in Kabul. "I do not have anything against them [the British] but they must leave their bases and engage with the people," Mangal said."
The rebuilding effort in the region suffers gravely because British refuse to connect with the locals. There were only a few hundred British troops in the region and many of these died primarily because of the troops' failure to talk to ordinary Afghans; according to the cables; the British effort at Helmand in 2008 received scathing criticism by U.S and Afghan officials.[1][2]
"The release was instantly condemned by U.S. and Pakistani officials as both potentially harmful and irrelevant."
The U.S certainly takes the central role in any wiki-leak that made soldiers or governments look bad; whether it is with Pakistani soldiers or British soldiers or trying to cover up the number of casualties in Iraq. To say that American bad behavior and their lack of conscience for the British soldiers who gave their lives up in Helmand; makes 'Britain' or any other ally look worse than America; is ...[2] [[http://icasualties.org/][]Vote on this point: British troops inadequate
See history of changes to this point
The US Embassy Cables leaks hurt US allies more than the US itself.
No, because... The majority of the American population feels something should be done about Iran and North Korea
The current government is better than the one that preceded it. Pulling troops out like everything else is a process that takes time,money and effort.
The world is in financial crisis; and there are no perfect solutions. Attacking Iran would be pointless? Ahmedinijad is a talker not a doer and Iran's Jewish population is doing better than any Jewish minority in the Middle-Eastern Peninsula.[1]
Data proposing that Arab states are all-for an attack on Iran and that the Saudis have threatened to go nuclear if action against Iran is not taken; has been leaked. This puts the U.S government in an even shakier position than before(And we didn't think, it was possible) making it even more barefaced in front of its public.
Fact is; there is no sector where the U.S govt. seems to be in the right. Bad economic choices(sacrifice today.. and tomorrow?), bad military decisions(not taking action where they should(What does Osama Bin Laden have to do with Iraq? Where is he, is he dead or alive??); not pulling out from where they should) and committing tantamount war crimes in the process.
And now The middle-east wants the U.S to bring Iran down...
Vote on this point: The majority of the American population feels something should be done about Iran and North Korea
See history of changes to this point
The US Embassy Cables leaks hurt US allies more than the US itself.
No, because... Nothing new; U.S and U.S ally feathers unruffled
Covert alliances that are out in the open now will do much to damage the reputations of world leaders. Now all the world's leading are in the same position as former U.s president George W Bush and this cannot be a good thing in the long run nor in terms of elections.
The U.S however, remains sacrosanct; the country got away with war-crimes and violations of human rights before, and will continue to be above international laws and conventions.
Yes it's funny but the U.S allies are in no real trouble. None of leaks point to a reality that the masses did not already suspect. The world will go on almost exactly as it did before because nothing new has come to light.
The U.S though, is in a tight spot being the central player in all the problems in the world.
Vote on this point: Nothing new; U.S and U.S ally feathers unruffled
See history of changes to this point
The US Embassy Cables leaks hurt US allies more than the US itself.
No, because... It's all in good fun nobody's harmed
Tell that to the president of Yemen and the government of South Korea.
How should Iran feel about Saudi Arabia's backstabbing bickering??[1]
"President Dmitry Medvedev of Russia might not be flattered to find himself described as Robin to Vladimir Putin's Batman - once it has been explained to him exactly who the dynamic duo were - but it is hardly the sort of issue which prompts one nuclear power to re-calibrate its relations with another." Most of these issues provide political comedy rather than any serious developments in the public's knowledge of the political dynamics of our zeitgeist. We learnt nothing new and no country's foreign relations or policy is damaged by the leaks.[1]
Vote on this point: It's all in good fun nobody's harmed
See history of changes to this point
Vote on this debate: The US Embassy Cables leaks hurt US allies more than the US itself.
Modified:
04 Dec 2010
Point 1. Koreans claim to be sufficiently embarrassed
According to the quotes on wiki-leaks; South Korea is waiting until Kim Jong dies and wants to initiate a reunification with North Korea. North Korea in turn is upset with China for standing against them with the U.N and wants to talk to the U.S about disarmament of their nuclear program(even though currently nuclear power is only used to generate electricity). None of these plans were official and these diplomats can no longer wait it out an make demands on their own terms and in their own time. Wikileaks spoiled everything and strategies will probably be revised.[1][2]
This is modern-day espionage at its worst.
What South Korean diplomats say or do in what should be the "privacy" of their chambers is nobody else's business.
What is seemingly harmless information except for getting a few laughs can and should legally put the lives of Wiki-leak squealers in danger. The founder could face extradition in accordance to U.K/U.S law.[1]
The two Israeli American soldiers who were prosecuted (but not convicted) under the U.S espionage act talked about mission plans on Facebook and a Gaza raid had to cancelled/postponed because of them. "In March, the IDF was forced to cancel a West Bank raid, after a soldier wrote about the upcoming mission on his Facebook page. In July, alumni of a secret IDF base sparked a furor in Israel when they formed a Facebook group to trade pictures and stories — and then let a reporter join."[2][3]
Point 2. Pakistan's nuclear program is under still greater scrutiny
[1]
The tensions between India and Pakistan will be rekindled as M.Singh will see the leaks as an excuse to increment pressure on Pakistan and try to bank on anti-terrorism war-funding.
Adding fuel to the fire, is the fact that India can do absolutely nothing to protect Pakistan's nuclear arsenal and will probably use R.A.W to makes matters worse so that Pakistan is forced to disarm. Disarmament takes time ,money and ultimately serves the interests of terrorists who have greater opportunities to steal weapons during the vulnerable disarmament process(there is no perfect solution when it comes to nuclear waste or weapons disposal).[2]
Disarmament in the long run and for all nuclear states, will be the safest solution for the entire world.[1]
Point 3. Wikileaks founder on trial for Rape
[1] two women claim that Assange raped them during his recent stay in Sweden.[2]
Assange insists that the sex was consensual; and it is hard to absorb that he could rape two women at the same time; unless they claimed to be unconscious which they didn't. If this a ploy to make him look bad; well, Roman Polanski lost no artistic credibility or integrity from his involvement in a similar matter(statutory rape).
These are serious charges but have little or nothing to do with whether Wiki-leaks are reliable or not; he doesn't provide the information for the site.
These are serious charges but have little or nothing to do with whether Wiki-leaks is reliable or not; he doesn't provide the information for the site. The data and he are two separate entities and should be viewed in isolation.
Leaders of other countries(including U.S allies) look like funny caricatures but do not really face any serious charges. The U.S on the other hand has a lot to answer to in terms of violations of the Geneva convention, inhuman torture, unnecessary bombings; covert alliances etc etc...
Point 4. Yemen's double game foiled
[1] Yemen's President Ali Abdullah Saleh's alliance with the U.S is exposed to the government's detriment. The president's popularity has suffered tremendously and the leak is not only an embarrassment for him.
The U.S will suffer more than Yemen for this; because they have lost an ally who must backtrack on his support to the U.S; to win back the support of his people.
Point 5. British troops inadequate
"The criticism of the British operation in Helmand centres on its failure to establish security in Sangin – the town which has become totemic as the place that has claimed more British lives than any other in Afghanistan.
The Helmand governor, Gulab Mangal, told a US team led by the vice-president, Joe Biden, in January 2009 that American forces were urgently needed as British security in Sangin was inadequate and did not even extend to the town's main bazaar, according to a cable sent from the US embassy in Kabul. "I do not have anything against them [the British] but they must leave their bases and engage with the people," Mangal said."
The rebuilding effort in the region suffers gravely because British refuse to connect with the locals. There were only a few hundred British troops in the region and many of these died primarily because of the troops' failure to talk to ordinary Afghans; according to the cables; the British effort at Helmand in 2008 received scathing criticism by U.S and Afghan officials.[1][2]
[1]
"The release was instantly condemned by U.S. and Pakistani officials as both potentially harmful and irrelevant."The U.s certainly take the central role in looking bad; whether it is with Pakistani soldiers or British soldiers or trying to cover up the number of casualties in Iraq. To say that American bad behavior and their lack of conscience for the British soldiers who gave their lives up in Helmand; makes 'Britain' or any other ally look worse than America is wrong.[2] [[http://icasualties.org/][]
Point 1. The majority of the American population feels something should be done about Iran and North Korea
Data proposing that Arab states are all-for an attack on Iran and that the Saudis have threatened to go nuclear if action against Iran is not taken; has been leaked. This puts the U.S government in an even shakier position than before(And we didn't think, it was possible) making it even more barefaced in front of its public.
Fact is; there is no sector where the U.S govt. seems to be in the right. Bad economic choices(sacrifice today.. and tomorrow?), bad military decisions(not taking action where they should(What does Osama Bin Laden have to do with Iraq? Where is he, is he dead or alive??); not pulling out from where they should) and committing tantamount war crimes in the process.
And now The middle-east wants the U.S to bring Iran down...
The current government is better than the one that preceded it. Pulling troops out like everything else is a process that takes time,money and effort.
The world is in financial crisis; and there are no perfect solutions. Attacking Iran would be pointless? Ahmedinijad is a talker not a doer and Iran's Jewish population is doing better than any Jewish minority in the Middle-Eastern Peninsula.
Point 2. Nothing new; U.S and U.S ally feathers unruffled
[1]
Covert alliances that are out in the open now will do much to damage the reputations of world leaders. Now all the world's leading are in the same position as former U.s president George W Bush and this cannot be a good thing in the long run nor in terms of elections.
The U.S however, remains sacrosanct; the country got away with war-crimes and violations of human rights before, and will continue to be above international laws and conventions.
Point 3. It's all in good fun nobody's harmed
"President Dmitry Medvedev of Russia might not be flattered to find himself described as Robin to Vladimir Putin's Batman - once it has been explained to him exactly who the dynamic duo were - but it is hardly the sort of issue which prompts one nuclear power to re-calibrate its relations with another." Most of these issues provide political comedy rather than any serious developments in the public's knowledge of the political dynamics of our zeitgeist. We learnt nothing new and no country's foreign relations or policy is damaged by the leaks.[1]
Tell that to the president of Yemen and the government of South Korea.
How should Iran feel about Saudi Arabia's backstabbing bickering??