- + Tiffany joined Debatewise
- + Feelsinfofs joined Debatewise
- + Nadar Morrison joined Debatewise
- + Antuannyi joined Debatewise
- + Hine Unime joined Debatewise
- + Paoneujem joined Debatewise
- + Irobbalovoido joined Debatewise
- + Objereegrourl joined Debatewise
- + Mcocaves joined Debatewise
- + Ryu joined Debatewise
- + Abdul Sucks Penis joined Debatewise
- + Zahra joined Debatewise
- + Daniellwis joined Debatewise
- + Robert Jh joined Debatewise
- + Daniel430lee@Gmail.Com joined Debatewise
- + Chris Reinders joined Debatewise
- + Disputatio20@Gmail.Com joined Debatewise
- + Arrevedot joined Debatewise
- + Shelly joined Global Youth Panel
- + Acitnerie joined Debatewise
- + Robby Shapiro joined Debatewise
- + Stephanie2ciis2 joined Debatewise
- + Penf Paws joined Debatewise
- + Kejmunoek joined Debatewise
- + Salmoli joined Debatewise
- + Asdasd123123 joined Debatewise
- + Uzrh."Boljabuducnost" joined Debatewise
- + Selihanov R joined Debatewise
- + Calum Crichton joined Debatewise
- + Emilied10 joined Debatewise
THERE IS A FREEDOM IN CENSORSHIP THAT ONLY CENSORED PEOPLE KNOW. NO MORE FACEBOOK,YOUTUBE AND WIKIPEDIA IN PAKISTAN.BOON OR BANE?
Facebook,Wikipedia and YouTube are the three most popular websites restricted by the government of Pakistan this week.Youtube was also blocked earlier in 2007 during a notoriously botched election. Now the excuse for shutting these websites down runs from "There existed a facebook group which called for drawing images of the last Prophet"(This would be a viable excuse If the group could not have been simply 'reported' and then removed.)to energy saving. The latter being a much more logical alternative; as Pakistanis are in a way addicted to these websites and taking a break from them does entail a dramatic (much needed; given the ensuing power crisis) fall in electricity usage. Albeit the problem that trickles my boggled cerebrum is not the energy-conservation by-product of these startlingly innovative measures but the hypocrisy of the so called democratic regime; which seems to be much more inclined towards dictatorship than still largely communist Fascist China.The Pakistan People's party came into power acquiring a mass pity vote following the still suspicious death of their prime candidate Benazir Bhutto. Having arrived on the pretext of being saviors of democracy,looping the slogan "democracy is the best revenge"in an infinite iterative verbal process. And yet here we are; our votes counting for squat and our freedoms diminished. On the upside; our days seem to last longer,feel fuller and certain angered frustrations over the frequent posts of religio-fanatic harbingers of injustice are assuaged.It is refreshing not to have one's Inbox plagued with invites to join pseudo-Islamic terrorist-leaning FB groups.And also alternatively not having to view some strange advertisement touting a crescent forming the face of a cleric in a starless night juxtaposed to the latest Ke$ha video which one had 'willfully' chosen to watch.Not to mention being free of the perpetual shame over being wrongly associated with throngs of close minded perverted fellow countrymen who possibly spend their entire time posting videos titled something to the effect of 'cute/hot Paki(no; they aren't being racist when 'they' say it) gurlz;aztaghfirulla(damn them)" on Youtube.
There is a freedom in censorship that only censored people know. No more facebook,youtube and wikipedia in Pakistan.Boon or bane?
Yes, because... It is universally understood that depictions of the last Prophet(S.A.W)
are not Islamic.Some people even call them blasphemous.
And the Quran says fight with those who fight with you.
Yay, I can use wiki-pedia again. But still no YouTube. Well, it's until May 31st; I think.
Actually no.There was no problem with images of the Prophet (P.B.U.H); until the last century when the Turkish Caliphate was overthrown in Kemal Ata Turk's attempt to modernize Turkey (He wished to rectify/truncate Turkey's image as "the blind dog of Europe".) Once Arabs hijacked Islam after the fall of the Ottoman/Turkish Caliphate the Saudi government decided there was.
The Saudi government also advocates chopping the hands of thieves which never proselytized in Pakistan because our doctors felt it was inhumane and refused to see-over the 'safe' amputation of human hands; during Zia-ul-Haq's era.That refusal on humanitarian grounds is what makes me proud to be Pakistani not boycotting Facebook of all things![1]
First with the notorious dual-citizen terrorists: Pakistani-British (like me); that was horrifyingly shameful enough; then comes this American Expat car bomber who not only is psychotic and diabolical but hey he does not even know how to build a bomb; how hard is it to pick up on O' Level chemistry textbook?? :ugh! and now this?! what is wrong with most Pakistanis today?
The Saudi government has no qualms about men keeping concubines and hundreds of wives; even though the four wives restriction is clearly stated in Islamic texts.
And most importantly Saudis/Arabs weren't going on a: report this site/group/community and that spree. And Saudi Arabia hasn't banned Facebook, Youtube or Wikipedia of all things. In fact Muslims from no other country in the world; except Pakistan went on such a stupendous rampage. -[2]
"Depictions of the prophet were once common, for instance, in Persian and Turkic Islamic art, although often in these pictures Muhammad's face or figure is veiled or left blank. Even before the Mongol conquest of Baghdad in 1258, Islamic civilization came under the influence of Oriental art, with its rich tradition of human representation. And after the conquest, there was an explosion of painting and other imagery in Islam, including depictions of Muhammad.
The Prophet was depicted by Islamic artists for centuries. So what changed in the last century? Our friends the Saudis effectively launched a hostile takeover of the Muslim faith"-[3]
Counter: The principle of fighting with those who fight with you cannot be applied here; because the makers of the website/group/event only did it to get a kick out of ticking Pakistanis off. And sure enough;predictably the moronic wannabe religious, ready-to-get-fired-up-at-the-first-opportunity- fraction of our population played into their hands like putty.
The Prophet(p.b.u.h) never advocated such stupidity.
In fact the revelation "Fight with those who fight with you" came to him after he had left Mecca(after facing many attempts on his life by Abu Jahl and his cronies; despite this Abu Jahl was never executed for attempted murder nor did he convert to Islam; even after the conquest of Mecca).
So; He(p.b.u.h) left Mecca for Medina(to live with Ansari tribe) and the Meccan tribes were going to attack Medina. The revelation was a divine warning to prepare for the attack.
The revelation in no way suggested that The prophet(p.b.u.h) would go out of his way to smite/avenge the people who wronged him in the past. Or advocate such behavior for His followers.
Vote on this point: It is universally understood that depictions of the last Prophet(S.A.W)
See history of changes to this point
There is a freedom in censorship that only censored people know. No more facebook,youtube and wikipedia in Pakistan.Boon or bane?
Yes, because... FB might be gone forever on may 31st
because of precipitating privacy concerns; anyway.
And it will back on that date in Pakistan:[1]
[1]- working webproxy or proxy server.
Which is all the more reason not to have blocked it; given how people need time to save info/photos/notes/et cetera they/we have up on the site and not saved anywhere else.
[2]counter: It isn't back and it's the 31st; hello?
People had threatened to boycott Facebook earlier in 2006; then it was an issue with news feeds.[3]
could it be gone forever?
Vote on this point: FB might be gone forever on may 31st
See history of changes to this point
There is a freedom in censorship that only censored people know. No more facebook,youtube and wikipedia in Pakistan.Boon or bane?
No, because... Freedom is not lost; The stream of embarassing videos posted on youtube will continue to proliferate exponentially
The show must go on:
Guess who's coming back?[1] Qualifications to maintain a peak position in Pakistani politics:
1.Get accused of murder/corruption (you might go to jail but the charges will be rumoured/rumored like spreading wildfire sans solid/substantial investigation; So families can claim innocence/political rivalry/imprisonment and haters can hate. In Nawaz's case: Openly attempt the murder of people in a air/aero-plane(thus ignite the coup of 99) and then be sent off to the middle east for a brief sojourn)
2.Never do what you're told. Razzle dazzle them.
"Musharraf said that he fully supported the military campaign ordered by Zardari and Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani in the lawless northwestern tribal areas.
The operation has won wide praise in the United States, where officials were long suspicious that elements of the Pakistani establishment during Musharraf's rule played a double-game of supporting extremists.
But Musharraf joined the government in criticizing the US deployment of unmanned drones to kill wanted extremists in remote parts of Pakistan.
Musharraf mused that Faisal Shahzad, the Pakistani-American accused of trying to set off a car bomb in New York's Times Square, was angered by the drone campaign.
Boon by Musharraf.[2]counter: Zuckerberg was not going to remove the group but suggested blocking-it/making-it-invisible in Pakistan; given all the fuss Pakistanis were/are making.
because these weirdos are not above using proxy servers to log into their accounts. The use of proxy servers may not be illegal but is very shady indeed.
So while people who actually use these websites to keep in touch with family/friends and share views(though admittedly status updates are usually bull) are blocked; while those who use them to channel unwanted spam will continue to do so.
Bane it is.
----------------------------------------------------------The argument on the left feels mostly if not entirely irrelevant to the debate at hand but fun; nonetheless.
------------------- this part of the article is relevant though the writer seems to contradict the evidence he presents(supporting FB does not equate to 'backing' the ban) :
Musharraf's own Facebook page has attracted more than 200,000 fans.-[1]--------------------------------------- Counter: The event/group/whatever would have been removed any way given all the people reporting it. Banning/restricting Facebook, Youtube and wikipedia made/makes no sense whatsoever.
Why facebook when the event/group would have been removed or at least least blocked in Pakistan? Why; the other two sites?
Definitely a bane; moronic fundamentalists see blocking FB as a victory and are spreading more false propaganda than ever: from claiming the 'MUSLIMS' have reduced F.B profits by 200 billion( Facebook only made a positive N.P.V for the first time September last year.[2] to touting other such bullshit all over he net and in my cellphone/gmail/hotmail in-boxes.Some people just do not understand how unwanted their spam is.
Vote on this point: Freedom is not lost; The stream of embarassing videos posted on youtube will continue to proliferate exponentially
See history of changes to this point
There is a freedom in censorship that only censored people know. No more facebook,youtube and wikipedia in Pakistan.Boon or bane?
No, because... According to the cited article the draw muhamed day website is still accesible/working in Pakistan
Yes but if you click on the link it isn't really accessible. So drawmuhammedday.com is added to the list of restricted sites in Pakistan.
Agreed that the government's reaction was extreme; but just try to imagine the uproar from the narcissistic didactic fanatics of this region if the government had not taken action.
Setting aside how their behavior is Un-Islamic; doing nothing about their strong grievances would have had terrible consequences.
At least with the ban; their noisy irritating rhetoric is also silenced. And their constant spamming, self-righteous pseudo-religious imposition/impertinence also grinds to a relieving halt.
Whereas Face-Book isn't. The cited article=P :[1]
There are Muslims all over the world; but Pakistanis take it upon themselves to protest against such bunkum. And to do so erratically without grace.
The Prophet Muhammed(S.A.W) put up with a non-muslim woman dumping rubbish on Him(P.B.U.H/S.A.W) everyday. Then when she didn't turn up once He(P.B.U.H) went to check on her and she turned out to be ill. He(p.b.u.h) then nursed her. and after she recovered she converted to Islam because of His(P.B.U.H) kindness,patience and tolerance. This is a parable that every Pakistani (Muslim or not) has heard in school/the-neighbourhood/neighborhood and yet most do not care for principle behind it; as evidenced by presently notorious Pakistani behavior all over the world. Including this Facebook ban.
China has put restrictions on its people traveling abroad; because of the whole Hong Kong Disneyland Chinese tourist behavior coverage fiasco.The Pakistani government should control our public; so that we respect other people's freedoms while demanding our own.
So, that we don't use indiscriminate drone attacks as excuses to build bombs ourselves(though technically F. Shahzad was/is an American stripped of his former Pakistani nationality for many years now)
I reiterate the point about government controlling the public rather blocking external stimuli. Most Muslims don't even think drawing Prophet's is wrong.[2]
Have we ever protested the depictions of all other prophets in Churches and art galleries all over the world? Shia Muslims freely paint pictures of Muhammed and/oir his descendants on placards they carry during the month of moharrum.
The Pakistani public really needs a time out and it's up to the government to make extremists behave themselves and maybe actually pick up and read a Quran before driving themselves and others mad.
However; the government encourages such behavior by submitting to and making excuses for; it.
The Obama Admin is no picnic either.[3]
But MY government is my immediate; I`m not paying tax money yto the U.S and therefore cannot impose the right to dictate her policy; however much it affects me/my-world.
Point 1. It is universally understood that depictions of the last Prophet(S.A.W)
are un-Islamic.
And the Quran says fight with those who fight with you.
Actually no.There was no problem with images of the Prophet (P.B.U.H); until the last century when the Saudi government decided there was.
The Saudi government also advocates chopping the hands of thieves which never proselytized in Pakistan because our doctors felt it was inhumane and refused to see-over the 'safe' amputation of human hands; during Zia-ul-Haq's era.
The Saudi government has no qualms about men keeping concubines and hundreds of wives; even though the four wives restriction is clearly stated in Islamic texts.
And most importantly Saudis/Arabs weren't going on a report this site/group/community and that spree. And Saudi Arabia hasn't banned Facebook, Youtube or Wikipedia of all things.
"Depictions of the prophet were once common, for instance, in Persian and Turkic Islamic art, although often in these pictures Muhammad's face or figure is veiled or left blank. Even before the Mongol conquest of Baghdad in 1258, Islamic civilization came under the influence of Oriental art, with its rich tradition of human representation. And after the conquest, there was an explosion of painting and other imagery in Islam, including depictions of Muhammad.
The Prophet was depicted by Islamic artists for centuries. So what changed in the last century? Our friends the Saudis effectively launched a hostile takeover of the Muslim faith"-[1]
Point 2. FB might be gone forever on may 31st
because of precipitating privacy concerns; anyway.
Which is all the more reason not to have blocked it; given how people need time to save info/photos/notes/et cetera they/we have up on the site and not saved anywhere else.
Point 1. Freedom is not lost; The stream of embarassing videos posted on youtube will continue to proliferate exponentially
because these weirdos are not above using proxy servers to log into their accounts. The use of proxy servers may not be illegal but is very shady indeed.
So while people who actually use these websites to keep in touch with family/friends and share views(though admittedly status updates are usually bull) are blocked; while those who use them to channel unwanted spam will continue to do so.
Bane it is.
"I wholly disagree with what you are saying but will defend to the death your right to say it"-Voltaire
The show must go on:
Guess who's coming back?[1] Qualifications to maintain a peak position in Pakistani politics:
1.Get accused of murder/corruption (you might go to jail but the charges will be rumoured/rumored like spreading wildfire sans solid/substantial investigation; So families can claim innocence/political rivalry/imprisonment and haters can hate. In Nawaz's case openly attempt the murder of people in a air/aero-plane and then be sent off to the middle east for a brief sojourn)
2.Never do what you're told. Razzle dazzle them.
Point 2. According to the cited article the draw muhamed day website is still accesible/working in Pakistan
Whereas Face-Book isn't[1]
There are Muslims all over the world; but Pakistanis take it upon themselves to protest against such bunkum. And to do so erratically without grace.
The Prophet Muhammed(S.A.W) put up with a non-muslim woman dumping rubbish on Him(P.B.U.H/S.A.W) everyday. Then when she didn't turn up once He(P.B.U.H) went to check on her and she turned out to be ill. He(p.b.u.h) then nursed her. and after she recovered she converted to Islam because of His(P.B.U.H) kindness,patience and tolerance. This is a parable that every Pakistani (Muslim or not) has heard in school/the-neighbourhood/neighborhood and yet most do not care for principle behind it; as evidenced by presently notorious Pakistani behavior all over the world. Including this Facebook ban.
China has put restrictions on its people traveling abroad; because of the whole Hong Kong Disneyland Chinese tourist behavior coverage fiasco.The Pakistani government should control our public; so that we respect other people's freedoms while demanding our own.
So, that we don't use indiscriminate drone attacks as excuses to build bombs ourselves(though technically F. Shahzad was/is an American stripped of his former Pakistani nationality for many years now)
Yes but if you click on the link it isn't really accessible. So drawmuhammedday.com is added to the list of restricted sites in Pakistan.
Agreed that the government's reaction was extreme; but imagine if the uproar from the impertinent fanatics of this region if the government had not taken action.
Setting aside how their behavior is Un-Islamic; doing nothing about their strong grievances would have had terrible consequences.
At least with the ban their noisy irritating rhetoric is also silenced. And theie constant spamming, self-righteous pseudo-religious imposition/impertinence has also grounded to a stop/pause.